Audio recording of interview between Hugh Conway and Georges Roesch
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Audio Details
| Description | Audio recording of the interview of Georges Roesch conducted by IMechE Past President Hugh Conway |
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| Date of Creation | c.1968-1969 |
| Creator | IMechE Automobile Division |
| Archive Reference | IME |
| Transcript |
Hugh Conway: Well Mr Roesch, we all know of you as a very distinguished automobile engineer. I think most of us think of you as the designer of the British Talbot Car before that Company was taken over by the Rootes Group. We know of course, that you are of Swiss origin – how did you in fact get started off as an engineer? Georges Roesch: It came very early in my childhood, it was in the Spring of 1897 that my father took up the repair of motor cars. I should say in the singular because he only had one for a start. It was a Benz. When he had repaired it he asked me to come for a ride in Geneva. So I went there and I waited, you see. My father had some difficulty to start the engine, and when the engine was giving a few puffs he had to go to the front of the seat to regulate air and the carburation and that took quite a time. Hugh Conway: How old were you then, about eighteen? Georges Roesch: Six… Hugh Conway: Sixteen? Six years. Georges Roesch: Six years, yes. Hugh Conway: Good Lord! Georges Roesch: And that same year I learnt to ride a bicycle. And so when the engine worked we went down the street: it was Rue Bobilisberg, and the road goes a little down and then it goes into the Boulevard St. Georges, and then rises. And there as the car went down it went quite well and that is why I had an exhilarating feeling. When it was going on the flat it was still going quite well, but when we began to climb then it began to falter, well not really falter – it went more slowly – you could see that it was strained and then it stopped and we had to jump up and then push it and turn it round for us to go down. Hugh Conway: This obviously stimulated you in your youth to mechanical things just as engines stimulated many other people. But I think I am right in saying that you were what seventeen or eighteen when you left school and started to work as a mechanic or as an engineer? Georges Roesch: Ah! No, no. All my practical work as a mechanic started as an overtime to school hours. Hugh Conway: I see, in the evenings. Georges Roesch: You see I spent all my spare time, more or less, in my father’s works, you see. Hugh Conway: What kind of works was this? Georges Roesch: Oh! Bicycles you see, and of course it took on motor cars. My father in ’98 [1898] became the agent for Decauville, and Decauville as you probably know, was one of the most advanced cars at that period. Hugh Conway: What age were you when you left school? Georges Roesch: I was eighteen. Just over eighteen. Hugh Conway: This was what 19 er? Georges Roesch: That was 1909. And I left school before matriculation. I told my father that I wouldn’t go to university. I hadn’t worked enough to matriculate and I wanted to work on motor cars. Hugh Conway: And you worked with him? Georges Roesch: No, he sent me to Paris, to the Gregoire Works where I was an apprentice draughtsman. Hugh Conway: Oh good. This Gregoire of course is not the same Gregoire as we know today. Georges Roesch: Oh no. No no. It was Automobile Gregoire. Hugh Conway: Where was this? In Paris? Georges Roesch: It was in Poissy. Hugh Conway: What did you do there? Did you work in the shop or drawing office? Georges Roesch: No in the drawing office, yes. Hugh Conway: As a student designer? Or had you learnt to design before? Georges Roesch: Well, I could draw of course. I had learnt that at College naturally you see. But I had no idea of industrial drawing and that sort of thing, so there was the designer sitting there, there was his second there. He designed the engine – the main Chief you see, the other one went for the gearbox and the clutch you see. Hugh Conway: What did you do? Georges Roesch: I did the details, you see. They used to make the design, you see, and then I had to take each detail and detail it separately, you see. Hugh Conway: Then I suppose that you found that your familiarity with the mechanical elements from your practical experience helped you to produce… Georges Roesch: [interrupting] Oh, enormously, enormously! And in six months time I felt that I could…I would…that I was a draughtman. Hugh Conway: Did they let you do some work yourself? Georges Roesch: Ah! Well no, not design. Hugh Conway: Only detailing at that stage. Georges Roesch: Only detailing. But, I mean, you can exercise quite a lot of initiative in the detailing because… Hugh Conway: Of course. Georges Roesch: You see a design and some of my design didn’t have more than a full view – then bits of the other views so as to cut down the manual work to a minimum. So that if you are detailing and you learn how to detail you can from these bits of views deduct what takes place. Hugh Conway: Deduce in fact. Yes, indeed. Well how long were you at Gregoire? Georges Roesch: Oh well at the end of six months I asked to be paid and this was refused. Hugh Conway: Oh. In those days, of course, you didn’t get money. Georges Roesch: Oh none whatever, no. You had to acquire experience, therefore that cost money to the Firm and it wasn’t reckoned with. You were worth nothing, that’s all. Hugh Conway: So in six months you thought that you could in fact contribute and you wanted to be paid. Georges Roesch: Oh I knew I was contributing, you see. Hugh Conway: And did they offer to pay you? Or did you leave? Georges Roesch: No, no I left. Hugh Conway: And where did you go? Georges Roesch: I went to Delaunay Belleville. Hugh Conway: This is in Paris too? Georges Roesch: Yes, at St Denise, you see, and there I was favoured by being the assistant to Mr. Barbaroux, Marius Barbaroux. Hugh Conway: Barbaroux, yes. Georges Roesch: He was the Head of the Firm, not the Managing Director, if you like, he was the Technical Head. Hugh Conway: This was Delauney Belleville in those days was a pretty good quality car. Georges Roesch: Oh it was, it was the finest car in France. Hugh Conway: And how long were you there? Georges Roesch: It was mainly six cylinders. Hugh Conway: Yes. How long were you there? Georges Roesch: First of all I was two years there, and most of the time I was taking…I had a fitter with me who took any new product down and I used to record the drawings for Mr Barbaroux’s studies. Hugh Conway: How do you mean record them? Georges Roesch: Make the drawings, you see, so that he could see how they were designed. Hugh Conway: Oh from other cars? Georges Roesch: Oh yes, there were other products you see, mainly engines, particularly engines. Hugh Conway: A very interesting method of learning. Georges Roesch: Oh very. Yes. Hugh Conway: By examining other people’s designs. Georges Roesch: Yes and I learned a great deal at that time because it was the Knight and the period of the Knight engine and the single sleeve. Both the double and single sleeve, you see. I did conceive from that time that I should never be fond of the sleeve valve engine. Hugh Conway: Ha, ha! Yes, there’s nothing like taking things to pieces to find out how bad they are. Georges Roesch: Well, it wasn’t that it was bad but I was already with me was another engineer - more qualified than I was. He was a car manufacturer. He was an “engineer diploma” and we used to discuss – he taking the academic point of view, or theoretical point of view, and I taking the practical view point. We had some very interesting exchanges on that. Hugh Conway: This leads me to the very interesting question. Have you found in your life that you have lacked skill because you didn’t have a professional technical training, or have you in fact found that your skill as a designer, your intuitive skill has given you all that you needed? Georges Roesch: No I haven’t missed that because you need so much practical training before you begin to be useful in that sort of work. Hugh Conway: But then you always considered yourself I suspect as a designer. This is what you would like to think you are, surely? Georges Roesch: Oh, not at that stage. I mean I knew I was studying for being a designer. That was a period of study you see, and it took many years. Hugh Conway: But this was design acquiring experience by practical experience, by designing. Georges Roesch: Yes and, of course, having the scientific book open at the same time, you see, finding out the why and how. Hugh Conway: Now let’s move on because I think I am right in saying this would be 1912, at the end of Delauney. What happened after that? You came to England, didn’t you? Georges Roesch: No, No, after that I felt that I wasn’t gaining all the experience I wanted you see, and I went to Renault. Hugh Conway: Oh good Renault indeed, yes – designing or making? Georges Roesch: Oh design, oh from that time, you see, production was already in my blood, you see it had been… Hugh Conway: [interrupting] You understood production? Georges Roesch: Yes I understood production, you see, so I mean Renault came quite naturally and I remember when Monsieur Serre engaged me he asked me whether I could design an engine and I said certainly I could. Hugh Conway: Was it true? You could? Georges Roesch: I felt that I could. I mean, obviously, I would have designed an engine. Whether it would have been to the wishes of Monsieur Serre, that’s another matter, but I could have designed an engine, I knew what the piston and the con rod and crank shaft were and I knew how they stood up in other vehicles, you see. Hugh Conway: Was Louis Renault there, he was there at the time? He must have been an interesting man. Georges Roesch: He was the finest! He was the greatest personality I have known in my life. Hugh Conway: Indeed, you were pretty young by then. Did you have many contacts with him, or just casual? Georges Roesch: He used to come to my drawing board. Hugh Conway: To discuss things? Georges Roesch: Yes he discussed it mainly with Serre you see. Hugh Conway: Buy you would be involved? Georges Roesch: Oh yes, I would be involved, yes. Hugh Conway: Now, then, after Renault what happened? Georges Roesch: Well I think Renault is the stage in my career that was most vital. Hugh Conway: The most formative stage, is that the word? Georges Roesch: Yes, yes. I would consider it the most important of my life. Hugh Conway: You would then be what age? Twenty-five? Georges Roesch: No I entered Renault when I was twenty and I left Renault when I was twenty-three to come to England. Hugh Conway: So it was a very important stage in your life. Georges Roesch: It was enormously important because Renault at that time was the largest manufacturing factory of cars in Europe, you see. We had already the Taylor system, time and motion. Hugh Conway: Business management, yes. Georges Roesch: All that sort of thing was already very, very advanced. And it was, I think, it is interesting to state that the drawing office was at work at seven o’clock in the morning. Hugh Conway: Good Lord! To what hours at night? Georges Roesch: Six thirty up to Saturday night. Hugh Conway: So six days a week, from 7 o’clock till 6.30. Georges Roesch: Yes. One and a half hours for lunch. Hugh Conway: So that is the best part of sixty hours a week. Georges Roesch: That’s right. And I never found, I never found at any time that I was either too tired or browned-off [annoyed] in any way, I was always alive… Hugh Conway: Very stimulating… Georges Roesch: It was extraordinarily stimulating. Hugh Conway: What sort of pay, what would a man get? Georges Roesch: The pay was very good, it was one franc and 10 centimes when I began at Renault. Hugh Conway: What the hour? Or the week? The hour? Georges Roesch: The hour, you got paid by the hour you see, and I think it approximated to about four pounds ten a week. [Using The National Archives currency converter £4.10.0 in 1910 is the equivalent of £352 in 2017] Hugh Conway: Of today’s pound? Georges Roesch: Oh no! No! Hugh Conway: Oh no, not today’s. But it was relatively well paid? Georges Roesch: Oh yes, Renault wanted the work and he was prepared to pay. Hugh Conway: Now, what happened after that? Georges Roesch: We were well treated you know. Hugh Conway: Yes. Georges Roesch: The drawing office was, that was the central brain of the factory you see, that’s what it was and that is what gave me… Hugh Conway: The interest, perhaps? Georges Roesch: Oh! Largely the interest because I felt that by having the drawing office you directed everything. Hugh Conway: Yes. Well this is the thing which many people feel in England now is not right that the drawing office is a place where you put people and you don’t worry about them. You are saying that Renault built his Firm up by a strong dominating engineering department. Georges Roesch: Oh definitely. Yes. Hugh Conway: Now tell me this brings us up to just before the war. What happened then? Georges Roesch: Ah well, I had a friend, he was Chief Engineer of the Coventry Chain Company you see. Harry Watts. And he used to sell chains through an agent in Paris to Renault. Silent chains you see. And I knew the agent so I got to know him and we had some very interesting conversations, he was a very keen engineer. And one day I said to him, well the next step I shall do is to learn English, you see. Well, he said, if you want to come to England don’t forget we will receive you. And, of course, I wrote to him and decided I would come, and he received me in Coventry, found me a place to live at and also got me in touch with the Daimler Company and met Mr Berryman. Hugh Conway: Mr Berryman? Georges Roesch: That’s right. And I was engaged there and then. Hugh Conway: As a designer again? Georges Roesch: Oh yes, yes. Hugh Conway: And what did you work on there, what cars did you produce? Georges Roesch: Well my first job there was on the new ‘45’ Model that they were designing. Hugh Conway: Six cylinder? Georges Roesch: Yes, I think it was a six cylinder. Hugh Conway: Wasn’t sleeve valves then perhaps? Georges Roesch: Sleeve valve – oh, yes, that was fully sleeve valves at that time. Hugh Conway: And you worked on the engine? Georges Roesch: Yes. I worked on the engine. My job was to design the lubrication of the engine, and I asked for arrangement drawings of the engine and the Chief Draughtsman, who was later called Lieutenant Bush, said to me – well the best thing for you is to have a look at the engine in the pattern shop, it is built of wood you see. This struck me as curious, strange you see. Anyway I had a look at it and I neglected what I had seen, and I began to design a proper arrangement with the pump right into the sump. And at the time I remember Mr F. W. Lanchester coming to have a look at it, you see, and querying the position of the pump because Daimler had always had the pump higher up in the crankcase you see. And very soon after that a Gnome engine came into the drawing office, it was dismantled, we had to make drawings of all the parts. Hugh Conway: This must have been just after the war had started. Georges Roesch: No! No! No! It was before – well it was just after. Yes, yes. Hugh Conway: You mean that Daimler was brought into making the Gnome engine? Georges Roesch: That’s it. Hugh Conway: Just to go back a minute on Lanchester, this is Frank [sic: Fred] Lanchester – the famous Lanchester? Georges Roesch: That’s it, yes. Hugh Conway: What sort of man was he? Curious, strong-headed, strong-willed man, was he not? Georges Roesch: Oh, a man of great personality. Hugh Conway: Great ability? Georges Roesch: Well, I wasn’t able to judge that, not at that time. I didn’t know sufficient English to be able to, but I had the direct impression of a man of great personality who imposed this will, could impose his will. That was what I felt. Hugh Conway: He didn’t object to you putting the oil pump in the right place? Georges Roesch: Oh not at all! No, not at all! No. Hugh Conway: Well now this leads us to the War, and you had this Gnome and Rhone job. This was presumably to get Daimlers on making engines. Georges Roesch: It was only the Gnome, you see. Hugh Conway: The Gnome, indeed the Gnome. Was this the Monosoupape or the one before that? Georges Roesch: I think it was the Monosoupape. Hugh Conway: Then presumably Daimler made these? Georges Roesch: Oh yes, oh they produced them, yes. Hugh Conway: Now, car design must have stopped? Georges Roesch: Oh, stopped, yes, oh! Just like that. Hugh Conway: So what did you do? Georges Roesch: We went on the B2cI aeroplane. Hugh Conway: What the aeroplane or the engine? Georges Roesch: No, the aeroplane. Daimler built aeroplanes as well, you see. When the War started, they started on that and made the arrangements of the aeroplanes. I did not do any designing. Of course, I got very browned-off [annoyed]. This was not work that suited me at all. Hugh Conway: Couldn’t you get on to design of engines? Georges Roesch: Well there was no opportunity. Hugh Conway: So what happened? How long did this go on? Georges Roesch: I mean they just manufactured the Gnome. I thought the Gnome was out of date at that time, you see. Hugh Conway: How long did this persist? This didn’t go on all during the war, surely? Georges Roesch: Oh no! No, but you see two years. If I remember rightly we had the RAF engine you see, which was more or less largely on the lines of the Renault engine, the V8 you know, except that it had ball bearing crankshaft. That didn’t interest me very much. I was used as a draughtsman really at Daimler I didn’t display any… Hugh Conway: Initiative? Georges Roesch: No. Not really. |
| Transcript (continued) |
Hugh Conway: Well how long did that go on for? A couple of years? Georges Roesch: Yes, you see. And I found that through a nephew of the Works Manager of Clement Talbot who was working as a Draughtsman behind me, he told me they wanted somebody to produce their post-war car. Hugh Conway: Let’s get one thing clear – we know the Firm Talbot in England, of course. Clement Talbot, Clement, was a Frenchman, wasn’t he? Georges Roesch: Yes, yes. He was a French manufacturer. Hugh Conway: But was Talbot also French in those days? Georges Roesch: No! No! No! No! Talbot is the family name of the Earl of Shrewsbury and Talbot. Hugh Conway: Yes of course. So this was a mixture of the Earl of Shrewsbury on the one hand and the French Clement. Georges Roesch: Monsieur Clement, yes that’s right. Hugh Conway: There was a company in England called Clement Talbot. Georges Roesch: That’s right, oh yes, that was the Company. Hugh Conway: I see, and then this was obviously a good opportunity for you. What you wanted. Georges Roesch: Oh exactly, yes! I fell on my feet there. Hugh Conway: And so you had, what, the Chief Designer as it were? Georges Roesch: I start myself straight away as Chief Engineer. Hugh Conway: How many people were with you on designing this car? Georges Roesch: Oh I suppose about eight. Hugh Conway: Oh, as many as that. Where was this, in Coventry? Georges Roesch: No in London. Hugh Conway: In London? Georges Roesch: Yes at Barlby Road. Hugh Conway: Where Rootes have their Service Station? Georges Roesch: Their service station. Hugh Conway: This was the post-war car, now presumably did they build samples of this at the end of the war? Georges Roesch: Oh, yes. Hugh Conway: During the War? Georges Roesch: During the War and just after. Hugh Conway: And when did this go into production? Georges Roesch: It didn’t go into production. Hugh Conway: What happened to it? Georges Roesch: Four prototypes were built and they were very successful and then the Firm was sold to the Darracq syndicate, which was an English Company. Hugh Conway: Was this when it became Talbot Darracq? Georges Roesch: No, not yet, no, no let me explain, [long pause]…sorry… Hugh Conway: It’s alright, it’ll come. This was 1919 I suppose? Georges Roesch: Yes 1919, you see. So this Darracq Company was directed by Owen Clegg. Hugh Conway: Oh Clegg, yes Owen Clegg, yes. Georges Roesch: Of Rover fame. Hugh Conway: Of Rover fame, indeed. Georges Roesch: He had designed the pre-war Darracq and during the war, of course, they manufacture aero engines for the French and made a lot of money and were able to buy Clement-Talbot you see, so it was associated we were part of the Darracq set-up, you see. Well he told me that they wouldn’t produce my car. Hugh Conway: Why, wasn’t it good enough for them? Georges Roesch: Well he wouldn’t give any reason. He said it was a policy and he wouldn’t give any reason. But, I mean, the fact that I didn’t leave the concern, he made me quite happy so I mean, as a matter of fact he gave me production as well as design at Clement-Talbot and, of course, I loved that, you see, because I feel that design without production is not design. You see the two function together. I never understand why the two departments are not very, very closely linked because very often I consider that the draughtsman is what play the most skilful individual you can have in any concern and it is unwise to chop and change with draughtsmen. They should remain with a concern and they should be given a chance to go up as their ability allows them to do so. And that is the policy I adopted in Clement-Talbot. I couldn’t afford to train a draughtsman and to lose him. Hugh Conway: So you let him grow? Georges Roesch: Yes, yes, and I gave him as much initiative as I could, you see, as the time went, you see. Hugh Conway: Now I want to get on to the main job that you did in your career. Let’s get this clear. About 1922 or 21, there was the Talbot-Clement mixed up with Darracq? Georges Roesch: That’s right. Hugh Conway: What was the car, the Darracq car or… Georges Roesch: Well no. What I produced at the time was a pre-war ‘15’ Talbot, which I re-vamped. Hugh Conway: Yes I see… Georges Roesch: Re-designed certain parts so as to make them more efficient. Hugh Conway: Was this called Talbot or Talbot Darracq? Georges Roesch: Oh yes it was Talbot. Clement Talbot. Hugh Conway: Oh, it was called Clement Talbot? Georges Roesch: Oh yes, Clement Talbot, or Talbot you know. They used to say, well it used to be the Invincible Talbot, you see. So that was built - we only had the sanction for 150. I mean it’s hardly worth talking about. And then Sunbeam came in. Hugh Conway: Do you remember when this would be roughly? Georges Roesch: By 1919, [19]20. Hugh Conway: As early as that? Georges Roesch: Oh yes, as early as that. And when Coatelen came along, he too told me that my car wouldn’t be made you see, but we got on aright. And not very long afterwards he made up his mind as to that he wanted Talbot to make you see. And he sent us designs from Paris of the little ‘8’ Talbot. Well to be very frank I…there were some good things in the car and there were some very bad things. It had no differential; it was a two-seater and I felt that at that time a two-seater was not a workable proposition. It wasn’t a paying proposition. Anyway it didn’t sell, so I had to do something and I transformed it into the ’10-23’. Hugh Conway: You enlarged the engine? Georges Roesch: I enlarged the engine, I put a new axle in it and new steering, new front axle. I mean I refined the car so that the ‘10-23’ is known as a good car. Hugh Conway: It was the car really on which Talbot made their reputation or began to make it? Georges Roesch: Oh, the post-war reputation was certainly based on that, definitely, you see. Hugh Conway: Did you used to make most of these things or did you buy parts out? Georges Roesch: No, no, no, you see I was a designer and that’s the fun, you see, I wouldn’t… We could make anything we wanted, there was nobody to my way of thinking-there was nobody to excel us. Hugh Conway: Today of course it’s not half as… Georges Roesch: [interrupting] Ah it may be different today but I am not quite so sure. You see it’s largely a question of quantity and tooling. You base it that way, you see. So if you buy a product today which is shared by another manufacturer, of course you can’t make it yourself. That is the reason. But if you want an individual car, if you can design a unique, or any component which you design is ahead of anybody else, then you have a possibility to make it. That’s how I found it worked, you see. That is why I was able to do that. Well now, after the ’10-23’, the scheme went that they wanted to centralise all the design in Paris and I didn’t like that at all because, separated from the Works, I don’t see design living and anyway I went to Paris. I left Talbot you see and at that time. Hugh Conway: You went to work for whom in Paris? Georges Roesch: For Louis Coatelen, you see. Meanwhile I had an idea and it was the engine with inclined valve with operated by pushrod and rocker from a single side cam shaft. Hugh Conway: With rockers over the top? Georges Roesch: Yes. Pushrods direct, inclined. Hugh Conway: Oh, inclined pushrods? Georges Roesch: Inclined pushrods from a single cam shaft. Hugh Conway: This meant you had to have substantial gaps between the cylinders to allow the rods. Enough gap. Georges Roesch: Well yes, as the first engine was designed there are gaps but, I mean, that was a four bearing shaft at that time, you see, I had…. Hugh Conway: Was this a six cylinder? Georges Roesch: It was a 6 cylinder, yes, but…….[long pause] Hugh Conway: You got this V, the 90-degree inclined head which was obviously highly efficient? Georges Roesch: I had a master patent on that, you see, and as my position was quite uncertain, I felt that I wouldn’t take the patent in my name and I took it in the name of Harry Watts who had been a good friend of mine from the time I was in this country, and I never made any use of that patent. I had plenty, my friend had plenty of offers for exclusive rights and, of course, as I was working for the STD Combine I never, well it was agreed with my friend I wouldn’t give any exclusive right to anybody in case I would need that engine for the Company, you see. Hugh Conway: I am not yet clear. You went to work for Coatelen. He was Sunbeam, wasn’t he? Georges Roesch: Yes, he was Sunbeam. Hugh Conway: When did you come back here? Georges Roesch: I just happened to say that, then I came back here when one day in ’25 [1925] Coatelen said to me Roesch, Talbot is going down, they are not doing anything now and you will have to go back and put them on the right way. And so I came back in the Autumn of 1925 to find the factory just like a cemetery. Just with a few heads and few foremen, and that’s all. And so fortunately my drawing office was still alive and so I set them to work on the ‘14-45’ which was a completely new car from radiator to petrol tank – to rear petrol tanks, and conceived on the technique which has really made it prove itself throughout the years up to the present time. Hugh Conway: Historically the significance of this, isn’t it, is the small high efficiency engine? Georges Roesch: That’s right! Hugh Conway: What was this? The two litre? This was a 14horsepower. Georges Roesch: No it was 1665. Hugh Conway: 1700 cc? Georges Roesch: Yes, and it was a 10ft wheel base car. Hugh Conway: Fairly big, yes? Georges Roesch: Now that car would compare for performance with the ‘20’ Rolls at the time. Hugh Conway: And this was again, it was an inclined it was an overhead…? Georges Roesch: No, I never used the inclined valve. I didn’t need to! Hugh Conway: This was a vertical valve with pushrods? Georges Roesch: Oh yes, pushrods direct, as simple as you can have it. You see the moment I found in 1922 I pushed up, I redesigned the ’10-23’ and I got 53 horsepower per litre with a single carburettor, you see. And this is, this engine gives as much power as any engine that I know of today with a single carburettor of that time. Hugh Conway: Running on what fuel? Ordinary petrol or benzole? Georges Roesch: It was running on benzole at 8.5 to 1 in 1922, and when I found that out, I had no trouble with the ignition or anything. It was just fantastic to me. It was a complete revelation and nobody would believe it. Hugh Conway: But you had no trouble with piston materials? Georges Roesch: Oh, no! I had, well, of course, that engine was never, it was done for racing you see, and the first race at Brooklands wasn’t successful because we had lost our handicap. One of our testers tried the car on the track and it had been timed at over 90 miles per hour and, of course, our handicap went right down suddenly, you see, and so we were outside. We just lost the race on handicap. And Sir Henry Seagrave who drove the car found it very rough. Well, of course, you see it was a quarter elliptic spring which was rather stiff you see and it wasn’t.. the ride, he didn’t like the ride you see. And that was enough to scrap the car, you see, and I didn’t mind, you see. I thought, well I have learned a good deal out of that, you see, and this came so handy when I had to produce the ’14-45’. That’s where I got technique from! Hugh Conway: I think this is true of almost all engineering, you do these crazy things like building a racing engine and then later on you find its ordinary, that you were right all the time. Georges Roesch: Well I always have that in mind, that’s always I never understood why people, manufacturers, make things which were below the standard that is the best that is in existence, you know. I was always right up to the best. Hugh Conway: Go on, tell me the ’14-45’ was a wonderful car, had a very good reputation. Then you built an 18 horse power engine? Georges Roesch: Now that’s when I really had my head, you see, because the ’14-45’, I had to build it so that we could sell it with an equipment that dated from 1902, you see. We had no chance there, you see, but having brought the production of the ’14-45’ up to about 100 a week which the firm had never reached before – ever – then we were a bit better off although we supplied both Sunbeam and Darracq with capital – with our profits to try and lift them up. At any rate we had a certain amount of money to improve things, you see, so I designed, I knew that the ’14-45’ was a sluggish car, you see. Well obviously heavy, you see, because I mean I had to use a wood and steel body you know, and that’s very heavy and it means heavy axle and all that sort of thing. A big handicap but nevertheless with the light engine and transmission I achieved my object and it paid you see. Well now the other one, I didn’t change anything about the car, I improved the power weight ratio, that’s the only thing I did, but I did it in a different way. I realised that I wanted a very rigid engine, so it was another six cylinder, no longer than the ’14-45’ or ’16-65’ and at that time it had I think a little longer stroke, I forget for the moment, and then I had a 7 bearing shaft with a crank-shaft fully counter-weighted and that engine bolted solidly into a pressed steel frame gave me a rigid car. And so the rigid car really, well I had that in the ‘14’ already, you see, but that on the ‘18’, that is the ‘75’ as we first called it, we could do 80 miles an hour, we were free from shimmy and that sort of thing, you see. The steering was perfectly steady at any speed. Hugh Conway: I think the culmination of your cars was the famous ‘105’ which… Georges Roesch: [interrupting] Oh I think, yes. But the ‘105’, it was only a development of ‘90’. Yes it was just an increase in bore. I think the cylinder bores were in the same position, you see, and I pushed it up to the 3 and then 3 and a third, 3 and a half litres. Hugh Conway: I’ve always wanted to have a chance to ask you something. Why did you design a car where you had to take the back axle out in order to get the sump off to clean it? Georges Roesch: Well, this wasn’t really necessary. Hugh Conway: Everybody says it was. Georges Roesch: Oh well that is not the reality you see. Even if it were, that wouldn’t be a bad thing. I never designed a car to be dismantled. Hugh Conway: Well I don’t know Mr Roesch, you are a practical chap, you have done production work and that sort of thing, surely you have to design things so that they can be maintained? Georges Roesch: Exactly! Well there again it’s a question, my idea really for… of a car was to be able to travel all over Europe, go into the Alps, anywhere you like without having any trouble whatever, and this I found was possible with the Talbot. Hugh Conway: Yes, if you don’t need maintenance you don’t have to worry about it? Georges Roesch: You see there were only 6 bolts at the back of the gearbox to just withdraw the back axle and the two bolts at the shackles of the spring. That’s all there was to take the back axle off, and I don’t think that even the present job is any easier to take down than this was. It’s just a question that Talbot, when they came into a garage, struck the people there as something quite out of their use – their knowledge, and ignorance in the mind of anybody who is not used to look ahead is a very big handicap. It sets up their resistance, you don’t like it, you don’t like to be ignored you see. Now I personally just completely left that side of psychology out of myself entirely. I mean I know that I am ignorant of everything, that’s what it comes to today. Hugh Conway: [Laughter] Well Mr Roesch we are not going to dwell on the unhappy period for you after the loss, or the end shall we say, of your Talbot car. It was a wonderful car, what happened after that is the consequences of industrial development and we’d better not get involved. Georges Roesch: Oh quite, yes. Hugh Conway: But may I ask you one last question, an important question which I think our younger members of the Institution would like to know. Tell us your views on the significance of creative design. There’s an awful tendency today to assume that engineers must have University educations. People don’t seem to accept the significance of the chap with the pencil who can create on paper. Georges Roesch: Well, [long pause] Hugh Conway: Nearly all your life has been creative. Georges Roesch: Oh yes, creating on paper but acquiring knowledge all the time you see. You can’t, you see the brain in my view is a sponge; unless you feed it with knowledge you won’t get anything out of it. Hugh Conway: Yes but your brain has been dropping things out of it too on to paper and into metal? Georges Roesch: Oh yes, yes, but nevertheless I spent an enormous amount of time reading, an enormous amount of time in travelling and seeing things. Immediately I found that something was new or could be seen at somewhere I was there. I wanted to know. You see there was this constant search for information which is so important in a leader. You must know and of course this means a tremendous saving to the firm that employs you. Because instead of investing funds in research, they do invest it in brains, in alert and observing brains, and this is the thing that matters. Hugh Conway: But where in your experience have the best designers come from? Have these just come on the scene or have they come from the highly educated people, or what? Georges Roesch: No I don’t think so. I think design at Renault, which is I think the best place that I can recall, there were men there from the University, just as there were men just like myself, or even men who came from almost secondary school education, I mean primary school education. I’ve had one of my best designers was a man I took after, at 14, and he went to evening classes at the Northampton Institute and he is one of your good designers. Hugh Conway: Well I think this is the point that it isn’t just a question of education, it’s a question of innate ability, but the spark must be there. Georges Roesch: Yes, well that again I think can be developed, it’s a question of outlook, you see a father having er….my father was a very progressive man, he was a man who wanted to get there and that is communicated to a child. I owe a lot to my father, as far as that is concerned. Hugh Conway: He must have put enthusiasm into you? Georges Roesch: Oh definitely, he was a man who craved for knowledge and he knew that he wasn’t well-educated man and he did everything he could so that I would be better educated than he was. But he was disappointed when I wouldn’t go any further in academic studies, you see. Hugh Conway: May I say he wouldn’t be disappointed in you if he could see you now? Georges Roesch: Oh. Hugh Conway: You’ve had a very fine career. Georges Roesch: When I designed and produced the ’14-45’ and I came to Paris to see him and he drove the car from Paris to Geneva. I mean it was fantastic. Hugh Conway: It was his proudest day. Georges Roesch: Oh yes, it was fantastic. They were taking up turbines there, and I mentioned to them that they should develop a turbo-blower and I said well they produce a thing like this, this is how you want it. And they produced it like this. Instead of turning at 20,000 they were turning at 60 and 80 thousand and that’s another thing which to me is just sensible! But they were afraid that it wouldn’t work, and I could always develop bearings that would work. When I designed these high-speed piston engines, the bearings and the lubrication were works of art. Hugh Conway: You’ve obviously not lacked courage, engineering courage which must be one of your main qualities? Georges Roesch: Oh, courage I don’t lack. Hugh Conway: Technical courage? Georges Roesch: Yes mental courage, you see. But it had to look right, it had to be… I used to work until the thing was, you couldn’t simplify it more, you see. And you can only see that on the design. Hugh Conway: Mr Roesch, I think we’ve got more than enough on this tape, we’d better let this be transcribed and see how we get on. Georges Roesch: Oh yes, yes! Hugh Conway: If the worst comes to the worst, we’ll have to add a bit to it later on. Georges Roesch: It’s alright. Any amount. I know I would like just a few words with you just on general motor car practice, you see. Hugh Conway: Go ahead. [Roesch commences to speak] [Conversation between Conway and a colleague] Hugh Conway: Hang on a sec. This is the end of this formal tape. Will you please transcribe up to this point. |
